RL males as females

[Sharon Collingwood / Ellie Brewster]

The discussion on web sharing got me to thinking about what it means to be "female" in SL. There's been an awful lot written about why men roleplay women and about what percentage of SL women are RL biological men, but very little on what this behavior means for the development of SL society.

How do we class RL biological men who roleplay women? Granted, there are a lot of reasons for this, and some of this behavior is just play. But what about RL males who have taken up an established SL identity, to the point of being accepted as a SL female? Does their biological sex matter?

I do know of at least one RL female who has an established male role in SL. With a little effort, his RL identity can be found out. In SL he is a highly respected male who is deeply involved in community building. Is his effectiveness influenced by the fact that most of his close associates know he is a RL female?

Are we we beginning to use another category of what it means to be human, or is RL social construction at work in SL in a pervasive, but less visible way?

[Joe Clark (SL: JS Saltwater)]

Very interesting. Brings up the broader question of how essential one's gender is in any world--that is, I "am" a RL male but that may not stand up to close scrutiny of genetics, morphology, role behavior, etc. That's the strength of Judith Butler's idea of "gender performance" to me--my gender is a constant construction; it exists in the per-formance of certain behaviors.

So in one sense I would argue with your assumption that we can know the gender of the person behind the avatar. It's a performance behind a performance. Even biology is not entirely determinant. Even the m/f binarism of gender is suspect.

Still leaves your question of what complications arise when I tend to perform one gender in RL and another in SL. If I am "outed" what might the consequences be?

Here is a guess: For most activities, we will respond to the presentation, not our assumption of the "real" person behind it. Research suggests that generally people feel hoodwinked when the online gender is not the "real" one, but I think that varies by context. What I find from my own experience is that I tend to construct an "other" in my mind that is neither male nor female, and that it's much easier to do that in SL than in RL, so far, anyway, and I think that has to do with the immediacy of gender cues in RL.

Now that I have talked round in a few circles, I am seeing more of your point, though. RL society is so interwoven with essentialist gender binarism that we do import to SL, but need not. So what emerges? I do see hints of a gender fluidity in SL; an explicit recognition of gender as a kind of clothing. **BUT** I have to qualify my observation by noting (as have others in the literature) that in our culture maleness is usually considered the default, so one is less aware of maleness as something one puts on and takes off, while the female is considered highly gendered* so I am more aware of it as a "role". Not sure that is clear.

*In the same way that, in the US, people will often not refer to a person's skin color unless it isn't white.

[Denise ODriscoll]

There is definately an issue for most people when it comes to gender in SL. It is a very sensitive subject just as it is in RL. People are happy to ignore issues like age, race, physique, social standing, personal history, criminal record etc. when it come to interacting with other avatars in SL but not gender. Why is this ? In many cases I think it is because people see SL as a second chance to make up for shortcomings in their RL. So they are applying RL norms to the situation and in many cases see SL as a sort of dating agency which will lead to a RL relationship. This is a pity....SL should be seen for what it is, a "SECOND LIFE"...a living laboratory where people can experiment with all kinds of role play, a safe environment where one can try things that would be impossible in RL. For my own part, although male in RL, I live most of my SL as a female. I have no ambition in RL to be involved with transgendered movements although I have harboured yearnings throughout my life to be female. This yearniing has never been all consuming and I have happily lived as a hetrosexual male. When I discovered SL... I realised that I could indulge my yearnings at no risk to my RL...I was hooked. Now I could be a woman and explore what it means to be female. I rarely use my male AV. Even when attending a meeting or some other non-gender specific event..I go as a woman. Why? I enjoy it...it is a voyage of exploration..a chance to live 2 lives........These are my musings for today.

[Bola King-Rushing/Text Timeless]

I know this thread's been inactive for a long time, but I've only recently come into RezEd, and I think this is really a valuable discussion.

As Joe/JS put it, too many people still feel "hoodwinked" when they find out that an av's gender or sex is different from its human's gender or sex. They may often react violently, as well (psychologically, not physically, though that sometimes happens too).

The idea that this is somehow "cheating" or "fraudulent" can have serious repercussions beyond the relationship in question, whatever its form. Reading the original post, I think of a particular and particularly outspoken SL personality (a male av run by a human female) who is often attacked because of this very question, and the fact (which was originally aired publicly as a malicious act) is used by some as a wedge to discredit what the av has to say. It becomes ammunition for ad hominem attacks that often become rather vile.

In another way, though, using the fluidity raises some interesting questions. For example, one of my avs is a male cross-dresser. While out clothes shopping, I came across a sim whose landing area leads to two separate sections, one for "Men" and one for "Women"; the women's side has a sign saying that male avatars who enter will be ejected and banned, and they have monitors (bouncers?) who enforce this rule. By changing my av to a female shape for an hour so that I could have access to the shopping area, am I "cheating"? Or am I no different from those like Denise who are permanently female avs run by men? (Of course, one may wonder why the sim has this rule at all, but they attract a lot of newbies, and there are still too many griefers running around in SL.)

It's also important to note that age, race, and physique, as well as (dis)ability status, are very much *not* ignored in SL. But that's another set of discussions.

[Rosmairta Kilara]

There is a lot of chat/literature about men playing female characters in World of Warcraft but I haven't seen much about SL. I'm in the other camp - two of my five SL avatars are male. I sometimes wonder how often I out myself via language. I'll catch myself saying something like "oooh, shiney" and then think "he wouldn't have said that" and wonder if anyone noticed.

The most interesting aspect for me is that my male avatars feel more comfortable in geek spaces and when heading to a corporate island to ask technical questions. Probably says more about *my* stereotypes than anything... but SL is a good place to confront them and play with gender.

I will also say that one of my five avatars is hardly ever human (she is dragon, hatchie, tiny or sometimes furry). Being a three foot tall dragon child or tiny phoenix is very freeing. There are no gender stereotypes to worry about. Mine or others.

I'd be especially interested to hear from the guys who have female avatars about their experience of gender and stereotyping and how it feels to be perceived as female.

[Denise ODriscoll]

I have 5 avatars, 2 male and 3 female. They are used to explore the full spectrum of experiences that SL has to offer. One of my girls is a typical "girl next door" person. She is very concerned about her appearance, buys tons of clothes and loves to go dancing and to meet people. If I may say so myself, she is good looking and is always well dressed. So... how do I experience gender ? When I am a female avatar I act instinctively as a female and never have problems with saying the wrong thing, for example. I find that I am accepted for what I am in SL...a female. I am regularly invited to dance by men and find that I have no problem interacting with them as a female. Most are polite and courteous and invariably want to become friends (which can give rise to other problems). I have met a few rotters in my time in SL....they often behave like immature boys. I have not experienced any negative gender based stereotyping but I suspect that this may be due to the fact that our limited time in-world is focused on a single social function e.g. dancing. What I have experienced however are emotions which I feel are specifically feminine: the joy of being complimented on my looks, the devastation of being dumped, the pleasure of flrting with men in the company of other girls, the horror of being stripped of my hair or clothing by a SL glitch etc.

I think SL has a lot to offer, using experience based learning, when it comes to understanding gender and particularly opposite gender. It would be interesting to put a class of students into SL assigning Female avs to the males and male avs to the females and monitor their behaviour and interactions.

[quadrapop Lane]

As a RL female who wears Female, Male and Neuter forms in SL over both primary and alt accounts I find this an interesting area of discussion. For me what gender you portray in SL is just that - an SL gender... and when in that mode others will usually (even if they know your rl sex (RL gender being a completely different kettle of fish)) treat you according to that apparent gender.

Those of us who have played with gender presentation have all experienced the occasional person who just cannot cope with the fact you have the opposite gender in rl to that which you portray in SL (at that time) - this for me says more about their own personal genderisation and lack of understanding of genderised identity in general than anything else.

As I say to people new to SL - this is SL you can be whatever you want to be here - be it human, animal, bird, fish, mech or ball of particles (and we all get to be the Ruth Cloud at times;-). Your avatar is just that - a representaion of something - how "other" you wnat that to be is entirely up to you and of no-one else's business. An anology I often use is that of RL clothing/costume - you are not your clothes - they are chosen by you and reflect your values/tatses but they are not the _you_ who wears them - in the same way your choices of avatar and avatar clothing are reflections of your values and tastes - they are your inworld "clothes".

[Bola King-Rushing/Text Timeless]

I'll agree that "you are not your clothes," and neither are you the avatar you happen to be wearing on any given day. But isn't it a little disingenuous to claim that the choices you make are "no-one else's business"? Just as with RL clothing, (re)presentation is always at least a partially social act; whether we accept it or not, many people will reduce us to the values and tastes reflected by the clothing or avatar that we wear. And even some of the simpler choices related to avatar dress can have consequences, as with those (like a businesswoman I was reading a couple months ago) who openly admit that they will not take non-business-attired and / or non-human avs seriously in a business context. Of course, they conflate terms like "costume," "in drag," and "avatar" - but that's exactly my point. On one hand, there are people who think anything non-normative is a "costume" (be it clothing or an avatar); on the other, there are those of us who know that any clothing or avatar you wear is always already a "costume." But in either case, the choices we make are always made in a social context - which leads us back to the original question of consequences.

[quadrapop Lane]

agreed Text - but then there is also a level of contextual maturity involved in many of those assessments made by users of VR worlds - those of us who have been around for a long time and have learnt what the subculture of any particular VR world is - it's mores and values - will see a person who haitually wears a particular style of Avatar in a different light to those who are still rooted in RL in their methods of understanding identity representation.

I am not my avatar, but then again I am, as it is my RL choices that make the av what it is on any given day. HOw others interpret those choices (as with RL) I have no control over. So as not to get co-dependent I have to not be too bothered about what they think - I cant control it... all I can do is be true to my own feelings, emotions, conceptual understanding and how i personally want to fit in, or not, with social norms.

I have a feeling taht once VR is more widely and extensively used there will be more of an understanding of how to read an avatar - it is not the same as reading a human in rl as it is a chosen representation without the subtle social cues given by posture and micro expression (on top of the bigger more obvious choices such as clothing)

That said i am unlikely to wear a gorean slave av to a business meeting - but i might be a glowing ball of colour - or male or female and suitably attired.

In dealing with the public on the UWA sims i wear a blue male demon on most occssions, but if RL is involved - like for the RL/SL launch a month ago - I will be a blue skinned female in very business like attire.

Why blue skinned - to remind those I meet that this is SL _NOT_ RL... and taht they need to use different referants... not that many I meet in these situations are aware of this yet... but one day...